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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
648
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Posted - 2016.12.27 22:11:21 -
[1] - Quote
I'd like to see what I call 'Ship Evasion Score' on the overview that's calculated just like the Weapon Accuracy Score is. (And like discussed above, it does indeed need the sig radius of on-grid ships sent to each client. IMO this is good info to have anyway so that the effectiveness of TPs, command bursts, drugs, ship modes, modules and the like can be observed.)
(Or, since CCP changed WAS to simply 'Tracking' in weapon stats, the overview should have an 'Evasion' column.)
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
648
|
Posted - 2016.12.28 16:21:19 -
[2] - Quote
Cookie wrote:What was wrong with having tracking speed (rad/s) in the weapon stats and the angular velocity (rad/s) you can have listed in the overview ? What was wrong was that the sig resolution of the gun and the sig radius of the target had significant impact on the chance to hit. Just having a gun with a rad/s tracking number higher than a target's rad/s orbit doesn't mean you'll be able to hit it. Also, a medium blaster with a higher tracking stat than a small rail doesn't have a better chance to hit.
Quote:We have this accuracy rating now which isn't really helpful at all, why not add something like sig rating for ships, like ... a frigate has a sigrating of B, would make it much easier to see if a gun with a rating of 40 can hit a ship with a sig rated B. Because sig radius of the target is highly variable, even from ship to ship of the same type, and angular velocity of the target is also highly variable. Having a single static statistic for ships doesn't really convey much useful information.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
648
|
Posted - 2016.12.28 19:44:39 -
[3] - Quote
Othran wrote:the tl;dr is that its been dumbed down to mush because radians are maths. Sig radius has **** all to do with tracking so stop with that nonsense. You need to know four numbers in order to calculate your chance to hit something with turrets (assuming you're in optimal):
Gun signature resolution (meters)
Gun tracking (rad/s)
Target signature radius (meters)
Target angular velocity (rad/s)
These days, gun signature is a constant 40,000 m across all guns. Turret tracking remains rad/s and is displayed in the info panel. CCP actually did the opposite of 'dumbing down' - they made more maths necessary.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
648
|
Posted - 2016.12.28 19:50:11 -
[4] - Quote
Cookie wrote:Sigradius is nowhere to be found in the overview That's true, and I think it's quite unfortunate.
Quote:That you have a hard time hitting tiny targets with a large gun is somewhat logical and doesn't really translate over to the accuracy score. How so? A small gun has, what, 200 or 300 tracking? Compare that to a large gun's 4 or 5 tracking, and it seems rather obvious simply from the accuracy score that the large gun will have a much harder time hitting small targets...? |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
648
|
Posted - 2016.12.28 21:58:26 -
[5] - Quote
Cookie wrote:maybe i have worded it wrong, but to boil it down... let's assume you have a ship with only M guns (for examples simplicity sakes) and want to try to hit a frigate with it.
The one and only thing you can yourself manipulate is your relative position/velocity which immediately boils down to your guns tracking speed.
Take the readouts you can get from overview and tell me how to turn my ship to have a better chance at hitting when i have a gun accurcy score of 40.
- Slow down your target as much as possible. Use scram and at least one web.
- Move in the same direction as your target. Determine this by looking at the target's velocity vector in the tactical overlay.
- Match your target's speed.
At no point do you need to actually view your target's angular velocity - you simply always maneuver to maximize your chance to hit. Unless your role is tackle instead of DPS, or you are being primaried and want to survive as long as possible, in which case you want to maximize your angular velocity relative to all hostiles on grid, but again you don't care about the actual angular velocity, you just want to maximize it. I mean, if the angular velocity that gives you a 50/50 chance of hitting is 0.12 rad/s, are you really going to fly differently if the actual velocity is either 0.30 rad/s or 0.07 rad/s?
I once was flying a tackle frig trying to get close to some sniping battlecruisers so I spiraled into them - after about four shots that completely missed they all bugged out and I'm 99% sure it's because they saw all their shots missing, not because they looked at my angular velocity and judged it to be higher than their guns' tracking after accounting for their sig resolution compared to my MWD-on sig radius.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
648
|
Posted - 2016.12.28 22:15:11 -
[6] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:You watch the angular V column when you want to pick out a target from the mob. You also watch angular V to see the effectiveness of your webs or maneuvering. Are you talking about when you're flying solo? If so, wouldn't you simply pick the one with the smallest angular velocity regardless of whether it actually is (for example) 0.07 rad/s or 0.22 rad/s? If I'm in a group I simply shoot what the FC calls as primary (or if I'm the FC I pick targets based on what they are, where they are, and what they're doing, not their angular velocity relative to only me.) As for judging effectiveness of my webs, I have the target's regular velocity along with my shot quality to judge that, and as for effectiveness of my maneuvering I certainly can look at the target's angular velocity but I'm not bothering to compare that to my guns' tracking. |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
648
|
Posted - 2016.12.29 15:37:06 -
[7] - Quote
Cookie wrote:so, there was a rad/s stat for guns, there still is a rad/s readout in overview, rather easy to match if you ask me, why there was a need for a change is still a mystery to me. Because the rad/s in the overview didn't correlate to the rad/s in the gun's tracking stat due to differences in signatures, and the rad/s in one gun's tracking stat didn't correlate to the rad/s tracking in another gun's tracking stat due to differences in signature resolutions.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
648
|
Posted - 2016.12.29 19:36:53 -
[8] - Quote
Captain Awkward wrote:Well with the old system you had all the numbers (not the fomulars) and at least could figure it out yourself.
Now you have this arbitrary tracking number that calculates tracking to a fictive 40km radius and EvE itself tells you NOTHING about it. You have to go to the forums and ask and be redicted to a outdated wiki or some def post to find out what Tracking Score actually means. To be fair, with the older display you were only given tracking and sig resolution for the guns, and zero indication in the game how those two stats interacted - you'd have to go to the forums or the EVE Uni wiki to learn how they fit in to the to-hit formula. Tracking Score isn't any better, but at least it isn't any worse.
Quote:And then you still have no idea if your Tracking Score of 20 is enoug to engage a frig or not because it does not tell you anthing about the necessary tracking score to actually hit the firg. In the new system you have to do some math, sure - specifically, adjust the gun's 40km signature resolution to match the target's signature radius then adjust the tracking score similarly - but you had to do some math in the old system as well. Except instead of knowing that the tracking score is in relation to a constant 40km sig res, you have to know the individual gun's sig res - which admittedly could only be one of three different numbers so those numbers were easy to memorize, but still there were three instead of just the single number now.
Quote:The sad truth is that 90% of EvEs player base is operating on the rule of thumb and gut feelings and has no idea how it actually works. And the game itself does not take any actiuons to make it tranparant or understandable. True. The game really does reward those who put a lot of effort into digging in to how things work.
Quote:A tracking score colum in the overview would clear things up a lot. Definitely.
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